on the bus ride to and from work, i've started reading a new book. (it's not a very long ride, but a good book is worth snatching bits and pieces of whenever you can.) i really am more of a non-fiction fan than anything else, and i've recently started the sins of scripture by john shelby spong. you probably remember the name; i remember back when i was "in the fold" automatically thinking he was a heretic without ever actually reading the book, and now i like reading him and being discerning. isn't that a good word? instead of prejudiced.
so anyhow, this particular book is about how particular bible verses have been used way out of context and have had harmful effects rather than positive ones. i'm still in the first section, which turns out to be about the environment. and the first chapter? focuses on being fruitful and multiplying. his point is, essentially, that a mandate that had a purpose when humanity/the jewish people were just starting out, has lost its immediate context, and thus can't be blindly applied anymore. in actuality, he claims, using excellently researched and chillingly scary numbers, one very important thing we can do right now for the earth, nature, and humanity is CURB population growth.
bethany asked me today why we don't just adopt. (she was being curious, not judgemental). the answer is that i think we will, and that we'd like to try both, but that we'd love to be biologically involved and create something together at least once. stated that way, these aren't sinister desires. but up against population density statistics and al-gore-type environmental truths...don't i just feel like the only decent thing to do is adopt. ouch.
i promise to pray about this, but this is going to be one of those prayers that severely test my ability to be humble.
Monday, February 26, 2007
time zones.
not that anyone cares, but the "time posted" on these babies (ha! babies!) is way off. that last one was actually posted at 10:50-ish, a.m. the curse of being in argentina :)
street cred.
so we have actually started the process, apart from looking things up on the internet. although that is a vital part of the process of doing anything these days. but the next thing we did was fill out some forms for a fertility clinic we found in buenos aires, and thus subsequently had a phone conversation with one of their representatives.
this was highly interesting. first of all, their forms were your typical, "your info/partner's info" complete with lots and lots of questions about sperm and scrotum and the like. so, we just deleted that section, and sent the girly section twice. the lovely woman assigned to us (whose name is nadia) called us a few hours later. she seemed not in the least bit fazed about us being two chicks. granted, buenos aires is fairly liberal among its latin american peers, but there is still a fair amount of discrimination. i won't suggest that it behooves fertility clinics to be non-discriminatory so they can get the big bucks from anyone and everyone, but it does appear that some of these clinics have figured this out already.
anyhow, esther and nadia had a nice lovely talk about everything, ending up with her promise to work up a detailed list of procedures, prices, etc. (i have a dream that everything will be much cheaper here because we're in latin america, but i'm sure that'll get dashed at some point.) the doctor is actually on vacation now until march 18th (it's high summer vacationing time here), at which point we will be re-contacted, possibly go in for a consultation, etc. we're still shopping around and what have you, but it feels nice to have been taken seriously by at least one fertility professional. like, we're actually taking first steps or something. crazy.
she said that from our profiles, we sound perfectly healthy and good to go (this is her pre-any-testing opinion) and that the total fee will probably be somewhere around $7000 smackers (likely less than in the states, but still a scary number for us). also, although i was hoping that there would be some medical reason that would suggest one of us being much more suited to donate eggs or give birth, it appears that there isn't one, so far. looks like we're still on the hook for making that decision.
regarding cost: my grandmother gave me a savings bond several years ago for $10,000, which i always (in my single days) said i would be saving for either grad school or adoption. so if we were to spend it all in one chunk on making a baby, theoretically, i should feel fine with this. there are a few issues, such as it (the bond) not actually being mature for a few more years, and the fact that once you spend it, it's gone--and then how do you FEED the little animal?? and of course i'm leaving out the strong possibility of having to do IVF way more than once. i know i need to be ridiculously grateful that we have this at all, but i'm still jealous of the blogs i've read of two-mom households, where both moms are making US wages. although that's still not quite enough for them, either...nutshell: if you're the praying type, pray for esther to get a job and/or me to get a promotion. it's sort of something we're using as a benchmark for whether or not to go ahead with this. i apparently have faith that it's going to happen (i've created a BLOG, for goodness's sake!), but our present income of $500 bucks a month isn't going to cut it to raise a family, even in buenos aires.
enough about money for now. promise!
this was highly interesting. first of all, their forms were your typical, "your info/partner's info" complete with lots and lots of questions about sperm and scrotum and the like. so, we just deleted that section, and sent the girly section twice. the lovely woman assigned to us (whose name is nadia) called us a few hours later. she seemed not in the least bit fazed about us being two chicks. granted, buenos aires is fairly liberal among its latin american peers, but there is still a fair amount of discrimination. i won't suggest that it behooves fertility clinics to be non-discriminatory so they can get the big bucks from anyone and everyone, but it does appear that some of these clinics have figured this out already.
anyhow, esther and nadia had a nice lovely talk about everything, ending up with her promise to work up a detailed list of procedures, prices, etc. (i have a dream that everything will be much cheaper here because we're in latin america, but i'm sure that'll get dashed at some point.) the doctor is actually on vacation now until march 18th (it's high summer vacationing time here), at which point we will be re-contacted, possibly go in for a consultation, etc. we're still shopping around and what have you, but it feels nice to have been taken seriously by at least one fertility professional. like, we're actually taking first steps or something. crazy.
she said that from our profiles, we sound perfectly healthy and good to go (this is her pre-any-testing opinion) and that the total fee will probably be somewhere around $7000 smackers (likely less than in the states, but still a scary number for us). also, although i was hoping that there would be some medical reason that would suggest one of us being much more suited to donate eggs or give birth, it appears that there isn't one, so far. looks like we're still on the hook for making that decision.
regarding cost: my grandmother gave me a savings bond several years ago for $10,000, which i always (in my single days) said i would be saving for either grad school or adoption. so if we were to spend it all in one chunk on making a baby, theoretically, i should feel fine with this. there are a few issues, such as it (the bond) not actually being mature for a few more years, and the fact that once you spend it, it's gone--and then how do you FEED the little animal?? and of course i'm leaving out the strong possibility of having to do IVF way more than once. i know i need to be ridiculously grateful that we have this at all, but i'm still jealous of the blogs i've read of two-mom households, where both moms are making US wages. although that's still not quite enough for them, either...nutshell: if you're the praying type, pray for esther to get a job and/or me to get a promotion. it's sort of something we're using as a benchmark for whether or not to go ahead with this. i apparently have faith that it's going to happen (i've created a BLOG, for goodness's sake!), but our present income of $500 bucks a month isn't going to cut it to raise a family, even in buenos aires.
enough about money for now. promise!
the three whys.
i figured there would be some questions to answer at the beginning of the blog, so here goes...
1.) why in the heck are you thinking about having a baby?? you're too young/single/lesbian/living a sinful lifestyle/against God's plan/etc!
contrary to the beliefs of some, i'm no longer young nor single (i don't give a rip if the government doesn't acknowledge it). as to whether or not i'm living a sinful lifestyle, go back and read the comment wars in my lj. we could debate about whether or not lesbians can have babies, but i'll cut that debate short: they have. and are.
i think there's probably one or two of you reading this who AREN'T antagonistic towards me (gracias), and for those folks, here's the rel conversation on this topic.
isn't it weird? just the concept, producing and then being responsible for another human being? it's a HUGE deal, which is why i was ambivalent about it for a long time. since making a permanent committment to esther, i've known that she is totally unambivalent about it. she wants babies, end of story. at times i felt wary about that--do i want them as much as she does? is it a bad thing if the answer is no? what harm will it do my eventual kids if i have them less than enthusiastically?
but over time, my personal emotional reaction to this idea just...shifted. like so many things. i was talking to a friend online last week (i'll call her znai, because i do. call her znai.) i mentioned that i was reading baby name lists on the internet (and by the way, it turns out i'm totally old-fashioned in my taste in names, but i'll hold back on that post until i feel that i've earned it a bit more) and she asked me when the heck i had gotten so serious about this whole thing. she knew we were thinking about it, someday, but when did it become concrete? and the real answer to that question was, just, i just knew. i just suddenly felt more sure about the whole thing. and there you have it.
it's an awful lot like back in 2001, when i was trying to decide if i was going to become a campus pastor. i was worrying over the decision for quite a while, fretting, making lists, praying feverishly, etc. then i went on a missions trip to russia for the summer, during which one of my stated goals was to pray for an answer to that question. well, i completely forgot to focus on it at all during the summer, and on the last day, i realized i already knew. i wasn't worrying about it anymore; i had peace.
i'm sure i can find other things to worry about now :)
and...as to whether or not it's against God's plan. i'm not going to lie; i've struggled with this one. clearly, we are going to have to enlist professional help in this endeavor--and what does that mean? but here's what occurred to me the other day while i was showering. certain folks may think us trying to have a baby is like bucking God's plan--He said "man+woman" and we ignore Him and do what we want. i can see how you might think that. but in the end, we're not disagreeing with God's plan at all--we're totally affirming it! we think life and conception and the miracle of gestation are totally awesome things. we're not against the equation of sperm+egg, we just personally don't have any sperm, so we need to get some. that's really all it is.
think about this--a heart transplant patient. one of the wonders of modern science. but in no point in his or her medical journeys was there a redefinition of blood or vein or muscle or beat. the patient totally adores and affirms these things. just because they were willing and eager to use medicine and technology and financial resources to do so doesn't mean they are denying the original concept.
the heart transplant patient needs help to get access to a new heart; i need help to get access to sperm. neither one of us wishes hearts and sperm would just go away. seems simple to me :)
or you could just go with esther's far simpler answer to the question of why it's ok for us to consider in vitro: "Jesus was conceived by IVF, wasn't he?"
2.) the heck are you writing a blog for? you're not so smart!
you are totally right. i am completely not smart about this, not at all. but the other day, when i went searching for resources and found almost nothing, i was crushed. then i posted a plea for help on a livejournal community for lesbians, and within hours got all sorts of useful links to blogs and communities and webpages and book recommendations. i get all veklempt about community in general, and it was a very happy thing to realize that there IS a community of people engaged in exactly the same process. so, maybe i can somehow be a part of that. and maybe, just maybe, i can offer a unique perspective on a couple of points. trying to do this overseas, eventual immigration issues (since i am an american citizen and my wife will just get turned away at the door), etc. we shall see.
3.) why does it have such a weird name?
i work as an administrative assistant at a translation company. i like it. anyhow, my desk is right next to the two in-house translators, and the other day, one of them was working on the subtitles for an educational film about gestation (totally a sign :). in the english, one of the labels said "the early embyro," and she enlisted my help to try and figure out the best translation for this into spanish. the upshot is that we found that the word "precoz" is often used in spanish medical documents to refer to this beginning stage of the embryo...not exactly the same meaning of "precocious" in english, which i tend to associate with 6-year-old classical violinists and the like, but simply meaning "in the opening stages." which my new family is. and it's awesome.
1.) why in the heck are you thinking about having a baby?? you're too young/single/lesbian/living a sinful lifestyle/against God's plan/etc!
contrary to the beliefs of some, i'm no longer young nor single (i don't give a rip if the government doesn't acknowledge it). as to whether or not i'm living a sinful lifestyle, go back and read the comment wars in my lj. we could debate about whether or not lesbians can have babies, but i'll cut that debate short: they have. and are.
i think there's probably one or two of you reading this who AREN'T antagonistic towards me (gracias), and for those folks, here's the rel conversation on this topic.
isn't it weird? just the concept, producing and then being responsible for another human being? it's a HUGE deal, which is why i was ambivalent about it for a long time. since making a permanent committment to esther, i've known that she is totally unambivalent about it. she wants babies, end of story. at times i felt wary about that--do i want them as much as she does? is it a bad thing if the answer is no? what harm will it do my eventual kids if i have them less than enthusiastically?
but over time, my personal emotional reaction to this idea just...shifted. like so many things. i was talking to a friend online last week (i'll call her znai, because i do. call her znai.) i mentioned that i was reading baby name lists on the internet (and by the way, it turns out i'm totally old-fashioned in my taste in names, but i'll hold back on that post until i feel that i've earned it a bit more) and she asked me when the heck i had gotten so serious about this whole thing. she knew we were thinking about it, someday, but when did it become concrete? and the real answer to that question was, just, i just knew. i just suddenly felt more sure about the whole thing. and there you have it.
it's an awful lot like back in 2001, when i was trying to decide if i was going to become a campus pastor. i was worrying over the decision for quite a while, fretting, making lists, praying feverishly, etc. then i went on a missions trip to russia for the summer, during which one of my stated goals was to pray for an answer to that question. well, i completely forgot to focus on it at all during the summer, and on the last day, i realized i already knew. i wasn't worrying about it anymore; i had peace.
i'm sure i can find other things to worry about now :)
and...as to whether or not it's against God's plan. i'm not going to lie; i've struggled with this one. clearly, we are going to have to enlist professional help in this endeavor--and what does that mean? but here's what occurred to me the other day while i was showering. certain folks may think us trying to have a baby is like bucking God's plan--He said "man+woman" and we ignore Him and do what we want. i can see how you might think that. but in the end, we're not disagreeing with God's plan at all--we're totally affirming it! we think life and conception and the miracle of gestation are totally awesome things. we're not against the equation of sperm+egg, we just personally don't have any sperm, so we need to get some. that's really all it is.
think about this--a heart transplant patient. one of the wonders of modern science. but in no point in his or her medical journeys was there a redefinition of blood or vein or muscle or beat. the patient totally adores and affirms these things. just because they were willing and eager to use medicine and technology and financial resources to do so doesn't mean they are denying the original concept.
the heart transplant patient needs help to get access to a new heart; i need help to get access to sperm. neither one of us wishes hearts and sperm would just go away. seems simple to me :)
or you could just go with esther's far simpler answer to the question of why it's ok for us to consider in vitro: "Jesus was conceived by IVF, wasn't he?"
2.) the heck are you writing a blog for? you're not so smart!
you are totally right. i am completely not smart about this, not at all. but the other day, when i went searching for resources and found almost nothing, i was crushed. then i posted a plea for help on a livejournal community for lesbians, and within hours got all sorts of useful links to blogs and communities and webpages and book recommendations. i get all veklempt about community in general, and it was a very happy thing to realize that there IS a community of people engaged in exactly the same process. so, maybe i can somehow be a part of that. and maybe, just maybe, i can offer a unique perspective on a couple of points. trying to do this overseas, eventual immigration issues (since i am an american citizen and my wife will just get turned away at the door), etc. we shall see.
3.) why does it have such a weird name?
i work as an administrative assistant at a translation company. i like it. anyhow, my desk is right next to the two in-house translators, and the other day, one of them was working on the subtitles for an educational film about gestation (totally a sign :). in the english, one of the labels said "the early embyro," and she enlisted my help to try and figure out the best translation for this into spanish. the upshot is that we found that the word "precoz" is often used in spanish medical documents to refer to this beginning stage of the embryo...not exactly the same meaning of "precocious" in english, which i tend to associate with 6-year-old classical violinists and the like, but simply meaning "in the opening stages." which my new family is. and it's awesome.
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